Meet Charlie Flowers (aka Ludas Matyi)

Posted by Tim Ireland at September 30, 2009

Category: Old Media, The Political Weblog Movement, The War on Stupid, Tories! Tories! Tories!

This entry was posted on
Wednesday, September 30th, 2009
at
11:00 am and is filed
under Old Media, The Political Weblog Movement, The War on Stupid, Tories! Tories! Tories!.

Charlie Flowers (aka ‘Ludas Matyi’) is the ringleader of a group who call themselves the ‘Cheerleaders*’; they turned up at the beginning of the Jenvey saga, and continued to pester myself and others until Dominic Wightman intervened. Now it’s in Wightman’s interests that I suffer for what he did to me (!) these ‘Cheerleaders’ have suddenly/mysteriously returned with a vengeance, and have been repeatedly publishing my home address online and broadcasting it to audiences that are hostile to me alongside claims that I am a bully, a stalker, a Nazi, and an ally of religious extremists. The refusal of certain bloggers (and a serving MP) to intervene or even clarify what they claim to be fair comment has greatly enabled these people, but that’s a matter for a later post.

(*They are also members of a band called the ‘Fighting Cocks’. I have snipped the signature with the links to their MySpace, Twitter, Facebook etc. pages, as I do not want to start a trend of offering free website publicity in exchange for threats/intimidation. Oh, and here, Charlotte Gore finally gets the free publicity she’s hungry for. Well done, you. Thanks for your input. Hope you enjoyed the passing mention.)

The short version is that I suspect Dominic Wightman of (again) manipulating others into doing his dirty work for him. Unless he has been using multiple false identities, Charlie Flowers has been doing the same in two ways; by having his hangers-on use their accounts for the primary instances of harassment, and by seeing to it that my home address is sent/broadcast to people the ‘Cheerleaders’ think will line up and have a go.

Recent repeated messages from a Cheerleader member nicknamed ‘Shooter’ insisted that – contrary to what I and others had claimed – they were willing to engage in their attacks while using their real names, so I dropped a line to the two members of their group who used their real names online, and had reliable contact details (Dan Wilde and Gina Khan). A copy of my email to Dan Wilde is quoted in the correspondence below. Rather than publicly stand by the actions of the group, Wilde forwarded this email to the ringleaders, who immediately published it alongside a whole lot of ‘Ireland is a Nazi’ nonsense.

They then made what was to be their final entry in their ‘Cheerleadered’ account on Twitter, before it was finally suspended. That message repeated my home address, and finished with the message:

“….AND THERE’S NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT!”

Now that you’ve got the background, I can allow this recent correspondence to speak for itself:

[Psst! ‘Matyi’ (Charlie Flowers) failed to give any reason for proposing a fist fight, and consistently refused to put his name to any of this while implying that I am a coward. There is no lie of omission here (as there was in Iain Dale’s since-deleted ‘Parish Notice’ post). I have corrected a typo involving his nickname (it is ‘Matyi’, not ‘Mayti’); further snips and other changes to the body of the emails are in square brackets and the highlight of the correspondence is emphasised in red (for the browsing convenience of those with short attention spans).]

– | –

From: The Fighting Cocks UK (fightingcocks@live.co.uk)
To: Tim Ireland
Cc: fiercebusinessrecords@yahoo.co.uk, danwilde@rocketmail.com, ginakhanmail@googlemail.com, Jonny Yeah (jonny_yeah@koobaradio.co.uk), princesscalamity@googlemail.com, charliewadia@hotmail.com, Plan B Booking (adi@planb-booking.com), Matthew Edwards (misterrivers@hotmail.com)
Date: Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 10:19 PM
Subject: Straightener

Mr Ireland;
With regard to your email copied in below, I have consulted with Matty H, Rivers, and Dan, and we have decided that the best way forward if you have a problem with The Fighting Cocks is to settle matters with a Straightener.
This can be at any fairground event near where you live, or at a Canvey Island event that runs regularly; we can send details nearer the time. You will need to bring MMA gloves in your size, and you will be fighting me, with one of my crew refereeing.
I expect an answer back within 24 hours, either way.
Yours
Matyi

From: Tim Ireland
Subject: The Cheerleaders
To: fiercebusinessrecords@yahoo.co.uk, danwilde@rocketmail.com
Cc: ginakhanmail@googlemail.com
Date: Monday, 28 September, 2009, 2:11 PM
Subject: Re: Straightener

Dear Dan,

Are you in any way involved with the Cheerleaders and/or their past/present attacks on people they accuse of extremism, Nazism, etc.?

This post includes examples of some of their recent attacks (scroll down t the screengrab):
http://www.bloggerheads.com/archives/2009/09/dominic-whiteman.asp

I ask because certain members are insisting that they are not afraid to engage in such attacks when using their real names, and they object to me (and other) claiming otherwise.

I would therefore like to draw up as complete a list of names as possible for publication (and/or presentation to police), starting with Charlie Flowers and working my way down

Cheers

Tim Ireland
www.bloggerheads.com

[band-promo signature snipped]

From: Tim Ireland
To: The Fighting Cocks UK
Cc: fiercebusinessrecords@yahoo.co.uk, danwilde@rocketmail.com, ginakhanmail@googlemail.com, Jonny Yeah (jonny_yeah@koobaradio.co.uk), princesscalamity@googlemail.com, charliewadia@hotmail.com, Plan B Booking (adi@planb-booking.com), Matthew Edwards (misterrivers@hotmail.com)
Date: Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 10:49 PM
Subject: Re: Straightener

To: Charlie Flowers (aka Ludas Matyi)

I’ve never met you, we’ve had no major disagreement that I’m aware of, you’ve not even managed to articulate what you have against me beyond these recent accusations of stalking that no reasonable person will stand by, and now you’re challenging me to a fist fight (while implicating everybody on this email list in your recent efforts to harass and intimidate me).

Unless you plan on giving me a simple list of the real names* of the people involved in the repeated broadcast of my personal details (something ‘Shooter’ insisted was not an issue) and/or admitting to the role played by Dominic Wightman in this matter, we have nothing further to discuss.

Tim Ireland
www.bloggerheads.com

(*And contact details, obviously. Email addresses will do if you’re concerned about your own personal security.)

From: The Fighting Cocks UK (fightingcocks@live.co.uk)
To: Tim Ireland
Date: Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 11:05 PM
Subject: Re: Straightener

Fight on or fight off?
The Hur al-Ayn girls will be the ring girls- Amarah Hadchiti, Priya Patel, Charlotte Wadia. They’re proud to be H a-A and dying to meet you.
This is the way we settle things here. Give me your mobile and home phone numbers now.
We need to settle this like real men or you need to fade fast mate.

[band-promo signature snipped]

From: Tim Ireland
To: fightingcocks@live.co.uk
CC: fiercebusinessrecords@yahoo.co.uk; danwilde@rocketmail.com; ginakhanmail@googlemail.com; jonny_yeah@koobaradio.co.uk; princesscalamity@googlemail.com; charliewadia@hotmail.com; adi@planb-booking.com; misterrivers@hotmail.com
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 22:49:42 +0100
Subject: Re: Straightener

Charlie,

My position is clear; you have not provided adequate grounds for proposing this fist fight (see: “I’ve never met you, we’ve had no major disagreement that I’m aware of, you’ve not even managed to articulate what you have against me beyond these recent accusations of stalking that no reasonable person will stand by”) and despite many assurances from your corner that you and your partners don’t care about the consequences of your recent actions, you have yet to even acknowledge that Charlie Flowers is your real name.

Unless you plan on giving me a simple list of the real names of the people involved in the repeated broadcast of my personal details (something ‘Shooter’ insisted was not an issue) and/or admitting to the role played by Dominic Wightman in this matter, we have nothing further to discuss.

Tim Ireland
www.bloggerheads.com

From: The Fighting Cocks UK
To: Tim Ireland
Date: Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 11:25 PM
Subject: Re: Straightener

Fuck it, I’m coming round to your house in the week. Fight or no fight?

[band-promo signature snipped]

From: Tim Ireland
To: The Fighting Cocks UK
Cc: fiercebusinessrecords@yahoo.co.uk, danwilde@rocketmail.com, ginakhanmail@googlemail.com, Jonny Yeah (jonny_yeah@koobaradio.co.uk), princesscalamity@googlemail.com, charliewadia@hotmail.com, Plan B Booking (adi@planb-booking.com), Matthew Edwards (misterrivers@hotmail.com)
Date: Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 11:34 PM
Subject: Re: Straightener

Charlie,

If that’s threat to come to my home and start a fist fight regardless of what I agree to, then please have the courage to put your name to it. Otherwise, we’re done here.

Tim Ireland
www.bloggerheads.com


From: The Fighting Cocks UK (fightingcocks@live.co.uk)
To: Tim Ireland
Date: Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 11:41 PM
Subject: Re: Straightener

You’re getting an invite to a straightener. You approve or decline. I am very up for fighting you to settle this, and my crew are already taking bets. Now either man up or fade away boy. I take it you know how to box?

[band-promo signature snipped]

From: Tim Ireland
To: The Fighting Cocks UK
Cc: fiercebusinessrecords@yahoo.co.uk, danwilde@rocketmail.com, ginakhanmail@googlemail.com, Jonny Yeah (jonny_yeah@koobaradio.co.uk), princesscalamity@googlemail.com, charliewadia@hotmail.com, Plan B Booking (adi@planb-booking.com), Matthew Edwards (misterrivers@hotmail.com)
Date: Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 11:50 PM
Subject: Re: Straightener

Charlie,

You still haven’t told me what it is that you want to settle and why. You won’t even make this invitation (or any of the accompanying threats) under your own name. I don’t know who I will be fighting or why.

You appear to imply that I’m a coward in the hope that I’ll act like a fool. Sorry, no dice.

Who am I invited to fight and why?

Tim Ireland
www.bloggerheads.com

From: The Fighting Cocks UK (fightingcocks@live.co.uk)
To: Tim Ireland
Date: Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 11:55 PM
Subject: Re: Straightener

I’m Matyi. If you have a problem with the Fighting Cocks, we fight to settle it. I will book the venue with Joe Pyle. You’re either up for it or not, if you contact me again I’ll consider it on, and we’ll book it. If not, we’re done here.

And Shooter can do what she wants.

From: Tim Ireland
To: fiercebusinessrecords@yahoo.co.uk, danwilde@rocketmail.com, ginakhanmail@googlemail.com, Jonny Yeah (jonny_yeah@koobaradio.co.uk), princesscalamity@googlemail.com, charliewadia@hotmail.com, Plan B Booking (adi@planb-booking.com), Matthew Edwards (misterrivers@hotmail.com)
Date: Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 12:13 AM
Subject: Fwd: Re: Straightener

FYI:

I won’t be knowingly contacting ‘Matyi’ (aka Charlie Flowers) again, as doing so may give him the false impression that he has some kind of agreement for a fist fight (with no purpose that he can articulate) when no such agreement exists, and this likely to set him on a path to disappointment (or an assault charge).

Unless told otherwise by anyone having/wanting no part of this, I will be assuming that everybody CCed on this conversation (i.e. everyone receiving this email) has played a willing part in the repeated publication of my personal details, as well as this evening’s attempt at intimidation.

I’ll allow 12 hours for any replies.

Tim Ireland
www.bloggerheads.com

– | –

The ‘Cheerleaders’ have now published extracts of this correspondence on their Facebook page, accusing me of cowardice (because everybody settles ill-defined differences with fist-fights, don’tcha know).

Obviously, the police will be made aware of all of this, not that this is likely to help with the immediate situation.

Today, I am seriously discussing with my wife not the ifs/buts, but the whens/wheres of moving her and the kids to a safe/unknown location.

Judging by their track record and past trolling technique, I have little doubt that this will lead to jeers from the ‘Cheerleaders’, who will then go on to assure one and all that I’m hysterical and they’re harmless, but even if I’m going to take them at their word on that, I also have to take into account:

a) The many people these ‘Cheereladers’ have sent/broadcast my home address to

b) The lies these ‘Cheerleaders’ have been putting about publicly and privately (see below; like Mercer and Dale, the Cheerleaders choose to be a little more… creative in their accusations when out of the public eye)

c) The 50+ false claims that I am a convicted paedophile that Glen Jenvey (the author) is unable to remove and Google (the host) refuses to delete

We live in a country where paediatricians are the targets of mobs of illiterate tabloid readers, so I don’t think I’m wrong to be this worried…. and I think I have every right to call out the following Conservatives on their ongoing bullshit:

– Perhaps today Dominic Wightman would care to publish a statement about his relationship with Charlie Flowers and the ‘Cheerleaders’.

– Perhaps today Patrick Mercer would care to publish a statement about his relationship with Dominic Wightman.

– Perhaps today Iain Dale would like to clarify and justify what he told Mercer that might prompt him to describe me privately as an “electronic stalker” (and if he won’t make his case publicly, then perhaps he will finally recognise that the time is way past due for him to withdraw what he’s been putting about privately while claiming to ‘ignore’ me).

Or perhaps (and this is far more likely) all three of these Conservatives will continue to stand back and pretend that it’s none of their affair, tell their friends and colleagues that it’s all a lot of fuss over nothing, broadcast claims that I am paranoid and/or imagining things, whisper that I deserve this for being so mean to Tories in general, assure their fellow party members that they are behaving strictly within the laws/rules, etc. etc. etc.

[** 23 Feb 2010 – Workable email address removed following a request to my provider made on behalf of Matthew Edwards.]
[*** 16 Mar 2010 – Followed by a copycat complaint on behalf of everybody else.]
[**** 04 May 2010 – Then I decided to move to a provider that couldn’t be bullied quite as easily and later reinstated the data when they turned up mouthing off again. They’re going to publish my home address then moan about publication of email addresses (associated with a threat of violence, no less)? Fuck ’em.]








19 Comments

  1. Paul.Ferrari says

    I'm sure the good voting people of Bracknell would be interested in Mr Dale's lack of answers.

  2. jailhouselawyer says

    Pistols at Dawn, it does all sound rather exciting.

  3. Manic says

    Paul: Iain has already been informed of my intention to campaign against him on the basis that he is a liar and a scoundrel. I have little doubt that he will scream "Vendetta!"JHL: I'd doubt you'd be quite so relaxed and confident if you had to factor in a wife and kids. I've juggled bricks in my time, but bricks and bottles at the same time are a bit of an ask for anybody.

  4. Pete Connolly says

    You don't want to take this random, unknown, violent stranger up on his lovely offer of fistfight for an unknown reason in lovely Canvey Island? What better way to spend a day? This all reminds me of a ULL thread, right down to the Reverend Fformby Smyth (a cheerleaded! member).Although it looks and sounds worrying, I imagine that there's a lot of posturing from this internet tough guy. Immediately cc'ing all his trolling mates is a show – emailing you directly to state why the problem is can be more threatening.Good luck, stay safe

  5. balders says

    Having grown up in the Bracknell/Wokingham area (did A-levels at Bracknell technical college), I have plenty of friends in the area who would be more than happy to actively campaign against Dale in the open primary.Would be nice to see the failed Conservative Parliamentary Candidate fail again.

  6. mikkimoose says

    I have to say I find these people much more entertaining than Jenvey's rather sad efforts.But one thing that struck me about these people is the Muslim names, the 'progressive Islam' link, etc. I haven't looked into it any further though, so perhaps you could tell me whether they are genuinely Muslims or simply Jenvey-style fakers and baiters.

  7. mikkimoose says

    Oh look:[ [http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/article1354063.ece]]"Gina Khan is a British Muslim woman who lives near the men suspected of a plot to kidnap and kill a Muslim soldier. She says that it's time to stop the radicals, and to stop being afraid of them""Gina Khan is a very brave woman. Born in Birmingham 38 years ago to Pakistani parents, she has run away from an arranged marriage, dressed herself in jeans and dared to speak out against the increasing radicalisation of her community.""There are mosques springing up on every street corner," she says, pointing them out to me as we drive to her tiny house in Birmingham, near the district where nine men were arrested last week on suspicion of plotting to kidnap and behead a British Muslim soldier. Two suspects have since been released without charge.""Khan is particularly worried about how mosques are brainwashing children and young people: "To me, it is starting to look like a cult." And her local community certainly seems to be in denial. "After the raid I went to the corner shop here, and they were all saying it was a conspiracy. I turned round and said, 'No, it is not. Let us be honest'. "So it would appear that the motivation would be something like 'Jenvey/Wightman were enemies of extremist Islam, that Tim Ireland bloke made them look like fools, therefore we're out to get Tim Ireland". I guess extremism comes in many shades.

  8. Manic says

    More on Gina Khan later. I beg your patience.I stand by my initial assessment of the Cheerleaders, who appeared at the very start of this affair. They are in it for the troll. (See comments under this early post.)http://www.bloggerheads.com/archives/2009/01/glen

  9. BenSix says

    If you go to the Progressive Islam page, then click on the prominent link to the, apparent, contributor's TalkIslam archive, you'll find him/her wondering why the cheerleaders aren't being prosecuted. Odd stuff.Has there been any reply from Nawaz, Tim?

  10. Manic says

    progressiveislam.info is a meta-blog. The Cheerleaders repeatedly try to hijack it, which is beyond low-tech 'hacking'. In fact, it's no-tech.Re: Maajid Nawaz – someone has promised to take my concerns and 'pass them on'

  11. Cheesy Monkey says

    I've just looked at the Fighting Cock's webpage.Fuck me, it looks like it was shat through Gordon Brown's glass eye. There are Neanderthals from hundreds of thousands of years ago who have produced better-designed internet sites. Aye, they sound like rank nobodies failing to find the zip in order to chug on the cock of fame.Meanwhile, I see that Shiteman's put up a post asking The Cheerleaders not to make threats and intimidate people in such a way as it sounds like he's fully endorsing them. Well, that's what I think he's saying – man writes like a conspiraloon typing with boxing gloves on. You just know that there's a portrait in his attic, rapidly getting saner. Vigil? Fucking virgin if you ask me.I'm a little unclear: are 'The Cheerleaders' phenomenal hackers or just rubes with a vigilante hard-on?Anyway, all the best Tim and I hope this gets sorted and quick.

  12. mikkimoose says

    Gina Khan is an interesting one. She's another who, like Jenvey, has been a 'useful source' for quite a few newspapers, the BBC, and others. Not quite sure what to make of her – will look forward to your update.

  13. Manic says

    Cheesy Monkey: You would be amazed at how fun and fulfilling it can be to be exceedingly polite to these people, regardless of the absurdity of their claims and 'legal' demands. I invite you to try it.:o)mikkimoose: Soon. It'll be pretty short and sweet. As with the Wightman take-down, the simple reporting of a single fact is all that's needed.

  14. Guy Gooberman says

    It's a disgrace, is there nothing that can be done? The fact you are having to have these kind of discussions with your wife and kids, it turns my stomach that these vile creatures would persist making these threats based on no evidence.Can the police do nothing at all?

  15. jailhouselawyer says

    Tim: Have you not heard of the Great Yorkshire Understatement of the Year?True, I do not have a wife and kids to worry about.I have gone through a vendetta by police and park wardens.And, I have received threats by some local yobs. Similarly they are come and meet us, whereas I prefer the Tony Martin approach in Myhaven invade my space I take no prisoners…

  16. Professor Paul says

    I seem to remember Patrick Mercer took the side of the burglar in that one.

  17. Manic says

    JHL, and PP: I hope to be a better mood later, but right now there are some jokes that just don't fly in this house.

  18. Professor Paul says

    Sorry, that wasn't intended as a joke, more an illustration of Mercer's piss poor judgement. I know Tony Martin you see.Another guy with a strong sense of justice Tim, glad I've had contact with you both.

  19. Manic says

    Don't sweat it, PP. Thanks for your support.

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