Iain Dale is a lying liar

Posted by Tim Ireland at February 7, 2007

Category: The Political Weblog Movement

This entry was posted on
Wednesday, February 7th, 2007
5:03 pm and is filed
under The Political Weblog Movement.

New Statesman – Justin McKeating: Not Bright’s Blog III – Guido j’accuse!: Self-styled blogging guru and Tory A-lister, Iain Dale, described Tim as a ‘nihilist’ on his 18 Doughty Street webTV show. Now, at this point it’s necessary for me to declare my interest (this is how it’s done Mr Dale). Tim Ireland is a personal friend of mine. That might make me biased, but taking a look at the various campaigns that Tim has run over the past few years in order to foster positive political engagement – building blogs for MPs, organising tactical voting campaigns and protesting against the Parliament Square protest ban – and ‘nihilist’ is the last word you would use to describe him.

I’ve highlighted this passage in particular for two reasons:

1. Iain Dale could use a little coaching in declaration of interests.

2. Iain Dale has denied describing me as a nihilist (and I think we can expect him to repeat that denial now this article exists).

—– Original Message —–
From: Tim Ireland
Sent: 16 January 2007 18:25
To: Iain Dale
Subject: Re: “The power of blogging flows from directly connecting with the readers…
> This just in: “Iain Dale said you were a ‘nihilist’ on 18DS last night”
> So you see fit to rubbish/dismiss me on your show, but not mention the issue on
> your weblog where your hypocrisy can be highlighted.
> Figures; all mouth and no trousers.
> Tim

—– Original Message —–
From: Iain Dale
To: ‘Tim Ireland’
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 6:44 PM
Subject: RE: “The power of blogging flows from directly connecting with the readers…
> I never said anything of the sort. Seeing as until I just looked it up I hadn’t got a
> fucking clue what a nihilist is, I’m hardly likely to call you one, am I?
> You fight your own battles with Mr Fawkes. I’m really not interested in participating.

Tch. Such language from a man who objects to use of ‘the C-word’.

I am now about to prove that Iain Dale is a liar… a big, fat liar. A liar, liar, liar with his lying pants on fire.

And I can say that he is a liar as often as I like… because he lied to me!

He’s a liar!

(Heh. This is fun.)

If you wish, you can access the relevant discussion via the Fox News Lite link below:

Blogger TV (15/01/2007): Iain Dale discusses the issues of the week that has got the blogging world excited. Iain Dale is joined by Devil’s Kitchen, Labour MP Nick Palmer, Mark Pack of libdemvoice.org, blogging MP Richard Spring and James Oates of cicerossongs.blogspot.com. Originally aired on 15/01/2007.

The 18DoughtyStreet website currently forces many web users to sit through videos from start to finish, so if you have the patience for it, you can sit through the whole programme and gawp in wonder as the pretentious twat gasps that Tom Watson has been blogging for a long time… “even longer than me!”

Or, you can take a short-cut straight to the this audio file of the relevant exchange.

Here, much to Iain’s annoyance, James Oates names my “comprehensive demolition” of Guido Fawkes as his blog of the week. James then goes on to say:

“(Guido) is a nihilist, effectively… and I really think that’s what Tim Ireland is pointing out…”

Then Iain Dale interjects with this:

“Well isn’t Tim Ireland one as well?”

Now technically, it could be argued that Iain was merely asking if I was a nihilist; not stating a fact, merely asking a question… but let’s pop back to Iain’s denial, less than 24 hours later:

“I never said anything of the sort. Seeing as until I just looked it up I hadn’t got a fucking clue what a nihilist is, I’m hardly likely to call you one, am I?”

But Iain did say something of that exact sort, and any reference to the dictionary would have been completely surplus to requirements because he threw the same word back in a guest’s face just the night before!

Iain Dale, you lied to me.

Iain Dale, you insulted me.

I want you to apologise on air, tonight if possible. Please make your apology sincere, to camera, and do try not to bury it in the tail end of a programme.

I would also like you to apologise on your weblog… and when you do so, I’d like it to appear without any warm-up suggesting that I’m a foul-mouthed conspiracy loon.

Remember that – if you are unable to put forward a decent case proving that I’m a nihilist – that you need to apologise for the lie and the insult.

Get to it. Liar.

UPDATE (6:36pm) – Hey, kids! Be the first on your block to have an ‘Iain Dale is a liar’ button on your weblog!

UPDATE (8:30pm) – Over 3 hours later and not a word from Iain Dale. And he’s got the night off, too. I’m still dumbstruck that the lie was such a bold one. If he’d pulled up short at denying that he’d said it, he could simply have claimed that he forgot saying it… but most people don’t forget the meaning of a word overnight without a major head injury.

PS – I think it goes without saying that if he tries to squirm his way out of it and insult me (again) at the same time, I’m going to be just a little bit upset.


  1. septicisle says


  2. Justin says

    I'll state one more thing for the record in case anyone dares to publicly suggest that Tim and I in any way colluded on the New Statesman article:Tim did not tip me off to Iain Dale referring to him as a nihilist. It was the other way around.I watched the exchange on 18DS as it happened and emailed Tim the next morning."Iain Dale said you were a 'nihilist' on 18DS last night"?That was me. I didn't know until now that Tim had later called Iain on it.Had Tim not been a friend I would have still felt compelled to point out just how ludicrous it is to refer to him as a nihilist. The evidence to the contrary is overwhelming.

  3. Manic says

    And at the time, I chose to give Iain the benefit of the doubt – mainly because I didn't feel like sitting through an hour of 18ToryStreet.This is not the first time he's insulted me on his show, BTW.

  4. ian says

    Can we have an "Iain Dale is a cunt" badge too?

  5. Manic says

    Given yesterday's stunt, I fear that would play into his hands. I was thinking that some 'Guido is a fink' badges wouldn't go astray, though…

  6. Garry says

    Having played a minor part in recent Dale related events, I'll just state for the record that I didn't have any foreknowledge of Iain's lie either.It's a double whopper. With cheese.

  7. modern conservative says

    I've not visited Bloggerheads for ages – given the current controversy i thought i should have a look and see what was going on – And crikey it's spitting bile here isn't it! Surely Mr Ireland your getting this massively out of proportion.Why worry what Iain Dale did or disn't say – rise above it.And don't worry you're not a nihilist, just somewhat eccentric.As people say these days "take a chill pill".

  8. Manic says

    modern conservative:1. How nice to have you back… and to see your first comment – ever – upon your return.2. Please read the following, then come back when you're ready:https://www.bloggerheads.com/archives/2007/01/briehttps://www.bloggerheads.com/guido_fawkes/2007/02/

  9. MichaelP-J says

    Hi Tim – I've been reading your blog on and off for about two years now (since seeing the original Backing Blair video, in fact). Anyway, whilst I applaud your efforts to try and encourage more people to engage in politics, cheap point-scoring sessions such as this one are exactly the sort of thing that turned me off being involved in local and national politics myself. It seems that whether the venue is the student union meeting, the blogosphere or Parliament itself, British politics revolves around feuds, smears and general nastyness. Sadly, nothing I've seen is encouraging me to become more involved again.

  10. Manic says

    Dear Michael,This is not a vendetta… this is an earnest effort to defend values that I believe have deteriorated greatly in recent months.Dale, Staines and their bully-boys are the ones lying, scoring points and delivering smears… i.e. I'm up against exactly the kind of thing that turns you off politics.And soon I hope to re-engage people just like your good self.Check Backing Blair for the closing statement…http://www.backingblair.co.uk/… then sign here, please:http://www.national-service.co.uk/Cheers.

  11. Bel says

    Hello, ManicI only discovered your blog in the last few weeks. From what I can see, you appear to be a well-respected blogger in certain circles. I read a few of your earlier posts, and I agreed with your wider points about integrity in blogging, etc.Far be it from me to tell you how to run your blog, or what to write, but every time I visit, you appear to be attacking Guido, and latterly, Iain.Not to say that you should not be aggrieved if you feel someone is insulting you, but this whole thing seems to be taking over your blog.Going by nothing but the amount of research you put into, for example, the Guido story, I was looking forward to seeing more of that research ability in action on real political stories – one of the reasons I keep coming back. Unfortunately (for me, and perhaps other readers) it all seems to be about quarrels with other bloggers.Please do not take this the wrong way. It is just that there is nothing quite so offputting as 'blogging about bloggers'. It all seems like there is a lot of navel-gazing going on, and frankly, as Michael implied above, perhaps sometimes, it is best to ignore certain things?Kind regards,Bel.

  12. Manic says

    "I was looking forward to seeing more of that research ability in action on real political stories."Hi Bel.This *is* a real political story (Psst! New Nick Boles post coming soon!)… and the conduct of bloggers like Paul Staines and Iain Dale impacts/reflects on us all.Far from being a personal squabble or an attempt at navel gazing, this is a determined effort to make people aware of what is really going on here.Paul Staines' facade was the first to fall, and he played a large role in his undoing. The same goes for Iain Dale.The resulting personal insults and attacks I try to take in my stride, but:1) I'm human2) They actually help to make my pointI fear that political blogging will soon be so over-populated with anonymous bullies and astro-turfers that making genuine contributions will become meaningless… and quite possibly dangerous.And I don't wish to single you out here, but it was only after I finally managed to nail jelly to the wall that Tory-leaning bloggers started coming out of the woodwork asking me to 'play nice' or 'get back on track'.(PS – The kitchen is on fire. Again. If you're looking forward to sitting down for a nice conversation over dinner, please don't interrupt the guy with the hose.)

  13. tyger says

    Nice to see so many new friends.

  14. Manic says

    Isn't it, though?I think the lesson learned here is that, if I want Tories to be nice to me, I first have to destroy one of them.

  15. Bel says

    I would hardly count abusing Iain Dale as 'destroying' him. I'm sure he's heard worse, anyway :)I only commented because, as I explained, I just discovered this blog a few weeks ago. I followed a link from Chris Dillow's site.I just thought it might be nice to read about something other than abusing bloggers, is all. I got involved (tangentially) in one such blog war last year, and I didn't like it. It's always best to be civil, I found.It's OK, anyway. I said my two cents' worth, and you were kind enough to hear me out and respond to my post.All the best.

  16. Manic says

    More than you'd get over at 'Guido Fawkes'. Or at Iain's blog, if you look at it in any detail:https://www.bloggerheads.com/guido_fawkes/2007/02/…I'm getting shouted down over at Iain's right now:http://iaindale.blogspot.com/2007/02/another-case…And, as I have pointed out in that very same thread; Iain is a liar. This is not an insult or abuse, it is a statement of fact. And what did he lie about? He lied about insulting me.The abuse is left to anonymous parties… which leads me to repeat this link:https://www.bloggerheads.com/guido_fawkes/2007/02/…Sometimes Iain is even kind/honest enough to deliver the abuse himself:https://www.bloggerheads.com/archives/2007/02/iain

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