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Thursday, July 14, 2005 

Ring any bells?

Cheadle Liberal Democrats: The Liberal Democrats have today exposed a misleading campaign leaflet produced by Stephen Day's negative Conservative campaign. The Conservative leaflet highlights five people who all say that they will be voting or supporting Stephen Day. But the names of the five people do not feature on the local voting list.

Ten quid says they feature on the Tory payroll, though. (Ref: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5)

Here's one from the flipside from yesterday's Independent: One leaflet, entitled "Shame on you Mr Hunter", highlights the fact that the Liberal Democrat candidate lives a few miles away in the neighbouring constituency. Tory posters are free from party branding and include the slogan "living here" - a gibe at Mr Hunter, who complained: "The Conservatives have run a nasty and personal campaign."

As they did here. While weeping ever-so-convincingly over 'personal attacks' from this weblog.

On the small matter of locale, one might be tempted to quote Anne Milton, who was once heard to say; "It's hardly Tierra del Fuego, now is it?"

Or perhaps one could consider the words of Sue Doughty: Mrs Doughty said of Mrs Milton: "She keeps saying she lives in Guildford. She has a one-bedroom flat in Guildford. She also has a family of four with a very highly paid husband. We don't believe that the family is squeezed into the one-bed flat." This column protested that it is quite unfair to blame Mrs Milton for declining to uproot her family before she has even won the seat. But Mrs Doughty was not to be mollified. "We've never had a Tory live in this constituency. They've always taken flats.

As I pointed out in my post about Anne Milton's cosy little flat: The address must be your current home address, not a business address. The address does not need to be in the constituency in which you intend to stand; it could be anywhere in the country.

So she could have used her Reigate address (say it with me again; "It's hardly Tierra del Fuego, now is it?") but she didn't. Why? Because she campaigned posing as a local. More than that, actually... she did her very best to give the impression that she was the local MP.

(SIDEBAR: Did Anne Milton use the Tierra del Fuego line again and again and again, or did she lift it from Damian Whitworth... and then use it again and again and again?)

Labels:

Entirely agree with what you say - but sources tell me that Tory tactics (and leaflets) are even worse in Cheadle than they were in Guildford, although there is (as you rightly say) a strong common theme and technique, possibly derived from US-style campaigning tactics ?

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I wonder if Milton has been campaigning up there... going from door to door slamming the Lib Dem candidate for not being from the constituency.

Perhaps we should ask her???

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Lambeth lad; even worse in what way? I didn't think the tory leaflets were negative, maybe i didnt get the ones your meaning.

I did get some lib dem leaflets though repeating the phrase 'Conservative Candidate from Reigate', which struck me as negative by contrast to the conservative ones. Don't those who run the campaigns for political parties just look at what they see to be their best angle and go for it?
The Lib Dems here obviously thought going for the fact that Anne used to be a councillor in reigate would play the non-local negative campaign and thuse cost her votes. As the Lib Dems are claiming the Conservatives are doing in Cheadle (though there does seem to be a difference, the conservative in cheadle does live in the constituency, the Lib Dem doesnt - unalienable facts! In Guildford Sue Doughty lived in the constituency as did Anne Milton, though this is disbuted by the Lib Dems (funnily enough!).
I say keep it positive,i think Anne was definately the more positive.

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Yes, Anne was positive.

She was *absolutely* positive that voting for the Lib-Dems would get you murdered in your bed by an MRSA-infected immigrant sex-beast. Who would then move into your house.

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I think i missed that one, where abouts did Anne say 'that voting for the Lib-Dems would get you murdered in your bed by an MRSA-infected immigrant sex-beast. Who would then move into your house.'

Tim, surely your not twisting things again! This is most unlike you, are you feeling unwell?!!

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Did I say she said that? No, I didn't.

If anything, I was being charitable in assuming this is what she believed herself and not what she would have us believe.

PS - It's you're... as in; "you are"... "surely you are not twisting things again"... and you're (see?) wrong in your (got it?) repeated assertions and suggestions that this is what's going on here.

If anything, a lot gets straightened out here. Your atrocious grandma and spoiling, for a start.

;oP

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Where politicians live is unimportant, its action that counts. Sounds like sour grapes from the Liberals.

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voicemail:

I agree. So long as they live relatively nearby (near enough to get the job done), where a politician lives is largely unimportant... unless that politician makes a big deal about being local, or does silly things like taking out a flat in the local area mainly so a Guildford address appears under her name on the ballot paper.

This isn't about locality, it's about honesty - and hypocrisy.

Milton was very quick to slap the back of her hand to her forehead when one of her smaller deceptions was pointed out. She played the victim, played down the distance and then pointed the "You're not local!" finger herself. While ignoring the charge of deception. And now the Tories are playing this same 'local' card in Cheadle.

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My agents are coming back from Cheadle tomorrow with all the source material, so I'd rather wait until commenting further. But it does seem that the Tories played the residency card in Cheadle in much starker terms than the LibDems did in Guildford, so Tim's original point seems very valid.

On a minor note re TomTom's point about LibDem policy supporting rampant crime, there WAS throughout the election campaign a king-size Tory poster at the junction of Stoke Road and Nightingale Road by the railway bridge under the London Road line (visible mainly to southbound road traffic)that made this very claim. Perhaps TomTom doesn't travel Stoke Road very often - it doesn't have many Tory voters. Nor does it have that many drug-crazed LibDem-voting asylum seekers mugging old ladies, though maybe tomorrow's Surrey Ad will put me right !

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tomtom, I live around 100 yards from where Anne is "lives", yet I have only ever seen her twice - once on May 5th on her way out to vote (our paths crossed as I left the polling station), and once on May 6th in the morning. Most times I walk past there are no signs of activity - lights are off when it's reasonably dark, etc.

You seem quite adamant that Anne did live in the constituency, whereas I have not said she didn't. I have merely highlighted points of evidence... maybe you know a bit more than I do on the matter? Inside information perhaps?

Tim: I don't think the beast would be particularly comfortable in such a small maisonette. I think it might be up for finding a nice large house in Reigate.

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tomtom:

Sorry, I just read the last sentence in your first post.

*cough* BNP-style immigration leaflet *cough*

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Re what Chris says - didn't one of the Tory leaflets make front page news in the Surrey Ad under the headline "Tory leaflet branded 'racist' " or something ? Obviously TomTom lives a deservedly sheltered life...... Nice to see that similar Tory tactics didn't work in Cheadle...

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Tim: 'Did I say she said that? No, I didn't.' - Did a stamp of the foot accompany that?!! It did didn't it?! Your so funny! Sorry YOU'RE so funny!

Oh, and while i think of it, where abouts did Anne make a big deal about being local?

and...while i think of it...come now..do you reeeeeeeeeeeally think Lib Dem policy is tough on crime? DO you? You're intelligent people!

(BTW i thought it was Dennis Paul who did the leaflet i think you're referring to about immigration in Westborough? Surely you're not twisting to Chris?)

(ps...Stoke Road is a lovely area, it's particularly important that we talk up Stoke Road, especially the much sought-after Stoke Fields, and it's proximity to the fantastic facilities (by which i especially mean the paddling pool) at Stoke Park.

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Come now, tomtom. Don't project your hissy-fit onto me.

And surely you could work much harder to challenge or disprove the more serious charge that; "she did her very best to give the impression that she was the local MP"

On your other 'point'... Lib-Dem policy could be described as being soft on crime. Labour policy could be described as being responsible for some MRSA outbreaks... and what the Tories did in this constituency and others was to blow any given 'threat' waaaaaaaay out of proportion. It's called scaremongering, tomtom. It's dishonest and irresponsible behaviour, and Milton was neck-deep in it.

But you would have us think that there is no connection between Dennis Paul and Anne Milton.

Link - Last night (12 April) at the Amnesty public meeting with all five Guildford candidates, the subject of racism in local leaflets came up and Dipstick claimed not to know anything about it - until Sue slapped one in front of her (Dennis Paul's) saying "But it's got your face all over it" No response from Dipstick, who rather looked as if she wished the earth would swallow her.

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Affirmative. This peculiar site makes no sense.

Tim, I understand you live in Bramley, not Guildford as you purport. Double standards me thinks. Also you are a member of the Liberal Democrats. No biase there obviously.

Your blogs are sometimes amusing, if irrelevant, and lately they appear to be rather repetitive.

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How are they double standards?

Tim is not a member of the Lib Dems.. I am... so that's why I'm biased. If he was, I'd have surely met him by now.

Still, it's good to have some Tories on here... provokes debate ;)

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Leonord Nimmo is wrong about Bramley not being within Guildford - it lies squarely within the Guildford parliamentary constituency, which stretches from Worplesdon in the north to Cranleigh / Ellens Green in the south, a distance of some 20 miles.And as one not unacquainted myself with Guildford Lib Dem matters (having the constituency mailing list tends to help !), Tim has never been known to be one of our number, as Chris Ward rightly says just above. But his objectivity is something that Lib Dems respect, and he and we share a common concern for truthfulness and avoidance of what used to be called 'humbug' (if I used the current b*llsh*t word MicroSoft's blogwatchers would get me !)

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Leanord Nimmo:

Look, a straw! Ooh, look - and another! Boy, if this goes on, you may be able to build an entire man.

But I'd prefer a structured argument that disproves any of the points/matters raised above - points and matters that I will keep raising up until one of your number actually proves one wrong.

Anybody who reads this post and then reads the best the Tory/Milton attack team can come up with in response (i.e. you and tomtom; aka Mr Impartiality) will be left in no doubt as to what went on in this constituency before, during and after the election.

You may as well go straight to the Chewbacca defence and save us all a lot of time (though your w-w-w-w-wacky nickname may cause a conflict of Sci-Fi Universii).

Logic; you've heard of that, yes?

PS - you seem to be carrying an extra 'e' - perhaps that explains things.

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??? Hmm, something has stirred, Captain. There appears a curious life form in Bramley, but my reading suggests the form is distinctly seperate from Guildford. Not only by name, but two distinct human settlements seperated by history, acres of green land, and much more. I however concede Captain, that we all appear to be living on the same planet, including Anne Milton!!

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My reading suggests that Klingons Lambethlad and Chris have some conviction after all (however mis-guided). They appear to be following a strange political sect by the name Liberal Democrats. Their colleague from Bramley however has no convictions, preferring to purport to be neutral when in fact he is a Liberal Democrats member.

Anne Milton MP has chosen to live with the rest of us, unlike her predecessor who like the Bramley life form choses to live separated from the everyday life experienced by most residents in Guildford. That detachment (some may say hypocritical condescending snobbery) is the reason Liberals lost their seat. Their lack of comprehension that people might be concerned about crime, immigration, MRSA, stealth taxes merely serves to re-inforce the point.

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I thought Tim was a 'proper' socialist from the Brownite wing of the Labour party (as opposed to the Blairite wing who currently behave like the most right wing Tory Government since the Second World War)

I thought lambethlad was too, as I assumed that like me, coming from the Lambeth area, he would have naturally socialist rather than liberal (i.e LibDem or Tory)proclivities.

Chris is the only Libdem.

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Anne Milton "lives" around 100 yds from me. I leave that house every day for work and return in the evening, so you'd have thought our paths would have crossed.

They did... twice... in the many months she has "lived" there. On May 5th when she was trailing me by about 50 yards with her husband on her way to vote, and on May 6th where I saw her enter the building. I have not seen her at any other time.

In regards to me being a self-confessed Lib Dem.. I have no problem with hiding my political allegiances because I don't particularly care if I get comments that suggest "sour grapes". I have one reason for personally disliking Ms Milton, and it's simple...

When I was ed of the student newspaper (before I even became interested in joining a political party I might add), she approached me to discuss student issues. I mentioned to her that I was worried about BNP chalkings and literature that had appeared around campus due to our vast international community. She assured me that she deplored that kind of thing, and that all parties should come to an agreement on the BNP.

A year and a bit later... we have that disgusting leaflet in Park Barn. Tomtom may argue that it was "dennis paul's leaflet", but if that was the case, why did Milton choose not to disown it? That contradictory action came across to me that she cared about one thing... getting elected.

I have represented students at this university for quite a substantial amount of time, and I'll be making sure next year when I return to my final year that this sort of hatred incitement is not perpetuated, and thus our international students will not be at risk from those who have been scaremongered by such disgusting literature.

I am not afraid to stand up for these people in my own name with a photo for people to realise who I am. Maybe the Tories who blatantly post to this blog could stop cowarding behind their computers and do the same.

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Chris,

We can't all be as photogenic as you, so don't knock the rest of us for being shy!

The Tories don't post a picture because: -

1) They don't know how;

and/or

2) All of the photographs they possess are very unflattering;

and/or

3) There is only one person (or at the very most two), using a series of nicknames, to create an illusion of strong local non politically affiliated resistance to the musings of our Tim.

I prefer (3) because I have always suspected a family member of the Milton household or otherwise a very close friend of doing these postings. 'Patsy', for instance, could not hide her delight at taunting Tim about the election result (so much so that at first I thought that it might be Ms Milton herself)and 'Anon' became a little over emotional in his defence.

If it is (3) then the Tories learned (but adapted) the trick from the LibDems, who purportedly being 'concerned local residents' regularly have their letters published in the letters page of the Surrey Guardian (sorry, I meant Advertiser) and have done so for years.

I make the latter point because I have as little respect for the LibDems as I do the Tories. Come to think of it, I haven't any time for New Labour either.

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Chris, your points over these last few months illustrate the extraordinary lengths the Liberal Democrats will go to playing the 'racist card' for political advantage.

Liberal Democrats shamelessly attempted to twist any debate on the merits of immigration/VISA controls to political advantage. I read what the Tories said on this matter, and there is nothing racist in questioning issues of immigration, indeed, in a modern democracy if one cannot approach the subject of border controls and managing the allocation of public service resources, then democracy itself is in a shoddy state.

When the Lib Dem's play the 'race card' and brand people with views on this matter, it is little wonder people are less than forthcoming in coming forward.

It is interesting you and the Lib Dem's made such mileage in your campaign over where the MP Anne Milton came from - after all, Reigate is just miles away. One shudders to think what the Lib Dems would have made of a candidate from Somalia if their logic is to be followed.

As a student too Chris, I think the 'International students' (an unfortunate label you place on a diverse group of people rich in cultural differences) will feel patronised by your comments and why you think where people come from formed such a negative point in your parties campaign.

If you feel the Tory leaflet was racist, have you reported it to the Commission for Racial Equality? If you have such conviction on this issue, state publicly whether it is racist (no innuendo please), charge those specifically as being racist, or else concede that you are using a very serious issue to extract political gain.

I saw what the Tories thought on the issue (and didn't agree with it all) but I have yet to hear a view from the Lib Dems about how they would deal with 500,000 illegal immigrants and preventing abuse of our asylum system.

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Leanord Nimmo said... Their colleague from Bramley however has no convictions, preferring to purport to be neutral when in fact he is a Liberal Democrats member.

An outright lie from an anonymous coward.

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let us try to defuse this by sticking to the known and easily acertainable facts:

(a) Bramley has been part of the parliamentary constituency of Guildford for the best part of 160 years, as well as being part of what is called in more modern times the "Guildford catchment area". When Bramley had a rail service, all trains went to Guildford, and even now all its buses terminate in Guildford. You can get to Godalming instead by bus if you like, but it takes ages.

(b) Nimmo is simply wrong in claiming that Tim is a Lib Dem Party member - he is not (a friend has just passed me the past four years' membership lists, and I can confirm this.)

(c) Nimmo is again wrong in claining that Milton's precedessor lived "separated from Guildford everyday life". Sue Doughty lived (and lives) in Shalford, which is (if anything) more towards the core of the constituency than is Bramley, and judging by her frequent photos in the Surrey Ad attending local events, she was rather more attuned to the constituency than Milton has yet become. But then, the Lib Dem election campaign here could not afford to throw £10,000 of untraceable moey towards their candidate's election expenses (just work our what all those photo-posters really cost at market rates !)

Makes me wonder what planet Nimmo inhabits ....Zarg, maybe ?

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Oooo fun... more baseless "points" for me to deal with...

Chris, your points over these last few months illustrate the extraordinary lengths the Liberal Democrats will go to playing the 'racist card' for political advantage.

And like I said in my previous post, I was against these kind of leaflets before I was a Lib Dem. As I also said in my previous posts, I don't particularly give two sheets if I get the "you're only saying it because you're a lib dem" card thrown at me - it's the last defense of somebody who has quite clearly lost the argument.

I read what the Tories said on this matter, and there is nothing racist in questioning issues of immigration, indeed, in a modern democracy if one cannot approach the subject of border controls and managing the allocation of public service resources, then democracy itself is in a shoddy state.

I offer two quotes:

"It is not racist to impose limits on immigration"
- The Conservatives

"It is not racist to love ones country"
- The BNP

The only two political parties that actually need to tell the people of Britain what it is or isn't racist to do. Perhaps we could ask Anne Winterton MP for her opinions on the matter?

As a student too Chris, I think the 'International students' (an unfortunate label you place on a diverse group of people rich in cultural differences) will feel patronised by your comments and why you think where people come from formed such a negative point in your parties campaign.

Well, instead of "thinking", how about "knowing"? There are many people at our university who are a "diverse group of people rich in cultural differences"... in fact... that's the entire university population. Perhaps you are suggesting that they only hold this title if they are from a foreign origin? I stick by my original description of the ~40% of international students that attend our university. I can assure you that nearly every international student I spoke in the campaign to wanted to vote Lib Dem... but unfortunately couldn't in the General Election. Oh what a different picture it would have been if they could.


If you feel the Tory leaflet was racist, have you reported it to the Commission for Racial Equality? If you have such conviction on this issue, state publicly whether it is racist (no innuendo please), charge those specifically as being racist, or else concede that you are using a very serious issue to extract political gain.


So by your own admission it's a "very serious issue". I believe the Conservatives used the "very serious issue" of immigration in order to generate votes. I have ALWAYS deplored the BNP and hatemongering tactics, and if you are truly a student, perhaps you could march into the Union and ask any of them who new me before I joined the Lib Dems about how I felt about such literature.

The Lib Dems have already charged the Conservatives publicly.. it was in the Surrey Ad. If I get the opportunity with my Union involvement over the next year, I'll do the same.

So, are you really not involved in a political party? Or do you just like the freedom of not being told "you're only saying it cos your a Tory"?

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We can't all be as photogenic as you, so don't knock the rest of us for being shy!

Probably the best compliment I've had all week. It's a "good" photo... unfortunately. :(

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Captain, these curious life forms appear unable to seperate emotion from fact. Interestingly, they fail to address points, choosing to divert debate at tangents leading nowhere.

Chris appears to suffer from that human weakness..vanity. Gasbill is right to suggest that the Lib Dems and Tories are trying to amplify support through various quotes in their literature and indeed blogs (though I am not one of them). However I feel you miss a point gasbill, the substance of the debate is that which should be of interest.

Interestingly, Chris avoids putting the record straight by stating who is racist and why. The fact is, the only group who have problems with where people come from are the Lib Dem's. If people from Reigate are criticised, one shudders to think what Lib Dems think of people from abroad.

Oh, and we still await Lib Dem policy on whether or not they think we should have border controls and how they would tackle illegal entry into the country.

Final point gasbill. If people want to see what the tories (or Lib Dems) stand for they can visit their websites and find out, or read their literature. The sneaky thing about the Lib Dems is they use supposedly non political vehicles to dupe the electorate and forward their own agenda - student union positions; residents associations, and this website are cases in point.

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Leanord Nimmo said...Captain, these curious life forms appear unable to seperate emotion from fact. Interestingly, they fail to address points, choosing to divert debate at tangents leading nowhere.

"Binks to Enlightenment. Evidence of primitive humour."

(insert canned laughter)

On the contrary, Dipstick Jnr, it is you who is most guilty of diversion and evasion.

For instance, nowhere in your latest comment do you address my calling you a liar.

Go on; prove I'm a member of the Lib-Dems. We're all waiting...

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"Dipstick Jnr" - isn't that the gerbil ? As a founder member of the Gerbil Liberation Front, I think their voice should be heard. Meanwhile, to answer earlier points made by Nimmo about former MP Sue Doughty living in supposed "up-market housing in Shalford" : Shalford borough ward / county division is actually as socially and residentially mixed as are many other Guildford peripheral areas - Nimmo should go down to the far end of Shalford's Tillingbourne Road at the close of a summer's evening to witness some of Shalford's rich diversity, such as the Burning Of The Stolen Car. (I presume Nimmo would accept this as "living within the everyday life experienced by most citizens of Guildford" - his phrase, not mine - which he claims that Anne does and Sue does not.) Maybe we should encourage the Shalford Tillingbourne Road Tendency to visit the end of Anne's road (either of which addresses in Guildford or in Reigate one is rightly enjoined not to reveal in public) to enact a similar ceremony ? It would further help to integrate her within the local community, after all.

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I'd rather suffer from vanity than cowardice... but thank you for admitting I'm human, I suppose that's more than could be said for Tories like you.

As for student union positions, I feel thrilled that I have not done anything fraudulent to hinder me from going for one next year, which is more than I can say for a certain conservative.

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I see the level of debate on here is as high quality as ever!

I think we all had assumed 'Tim' was a member of the Lib Dems.

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Interesting use of inverted commas there, tomtom.

So now I'm a Lib-Dem *and* 'Tim' isn't really my name? Perhaps you'd care to clarify or revise...

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Doesn't anyone read Tim's other blog sites? Anyone who does would know he isn't a Lib Dem.

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And they would know his name really is Tim.

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    Hi. I'm Tim. I live in Guildford. I've built a few political weblogs here and there. If you're wondering why I decided to start this particular blog, click here.

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